[kicad-users] PCBA-Export for Flying-Probe Testing: GenCAD export broken?

[Chris Fiege [e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Hi,
I am currently working with a manufacturer to fabricate a design. After soldering we want to add a flying-probe test to verify that all went well.

Working with other tools I had supplied the manufacturer with ODB++ -files. Since KiCad does not have an ODB++ -exporter (for reasons see [0]) we had a look on
other exports I can provide.

GenCAD looks like a good candidate: KiCad can export GenCAD and my manufacturer can import it into their magic flying-probe-tool.

But in KiCad 4.0.5 and in a (nearly) current nightly (32abc27) it seems the GenCAD-export is broken:
Pads of components on the BOT-side appear on the TOP-side in the flying-probe-tool. The rest of the component is imported correctly and drawn on the BOT-side.
TOP-side only components are not affected.

I found a bug [1] that describes this issue on launchpad. But it does not look like anyone is working on this issue.

How do you export data for Flying-Probe?
Do you have a work-around for the GenCAD issue?


Or is maybe anyone able to import GenCAD? I am not and thus I am not able to work on the issue in KiCAD.
If you are interested in trying to fix this issue I could try to work on the exporter and rely on you in validating.

Cheers,
Chris


[0]: https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg20255.html
[1]: https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1461147

[Pedro Martin [e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Hi,

I have not worked with Gen-CAD, but I have tested your issue.

You can edit the project.cad file and "play" with the components flags.

Components on the bottom layer have the tag "LAYER BOTTOM" and the tag
"FLIP" at the en of the SHAPE flag. See my example

COMPONENT U2
DEVICE U2_AMC1200-TI
PLACE 0.728346 -4.98031
LAYER BOTTOM
ROTATION -0
SHAPE U2 0 FLIP
TEXT 0 0.314961 0.0393701 0 0 SILKSCREEN_BOTTOM "U2" 0 0 0.0787402 0.0393701
TEXT 0 -0.314961 0.0393701 0 0 SILKSCREEN_BOTTOM "AMC1200-TI" 0 0
0.393701 0.0393701
SHEET "RefDes: U2, Value: AMC1200-TI"

As I'm viewing so, if a bottom layer component is flipped, it will be on
the top layer.

So try to edit the project.cad file and delete the FLIP tags.
Or keep the flip tag and change BOTTOM to TOP.

I can't test it, but give it a try.

Regards,
Pedro.

Post by Chris Fiege ***@pengutronix.de [kicad-users]
Hi,
I am currently working with a manufacturer to fabricate a design. After soldering we want to add a flying-probe test to verify that all went well.
Working with other tools I had supplied the manufacturer with ODB++ -files. Since KiCad does not have an ODB++ -exporter (for reasons see [0]) we had a look on
other exports I can provide.
GenCAD looks like a good candidate: KiCad can export GenCAD and my manufacturer can import it into their magic flying-probe-tool.
Pads of components on the BOT-side appear on the TOP-side in the flying-probe-tool. The rest of the component is imported correctly and drawn on the BOT-side.
TOP-side only components are not affected.
I found a bug [1] that describes this issue on launchpad. But it does not look like anyone is working on this issue.
How do you export data for Flying-Probe?
Do you have a work-around for the GenCAD issue?
Or is maybe anyone able to import GenCAD? I am not and thus I am not able to work on the issue in KiCAD.
If you are interested in trying to fix this issue I could try to work on the exporter and rely on you in validating.
Cheers,
Chris
[0]: https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg20255.html
[1]: https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1461147

[Chris Fiege [e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Post by Pedro Martin ***@yahoo.es [kicad-users]
Components on the bottom layer have the tag "LAYER BOTTOM" and the tag
"FLIP" at the en of the SHAPE flag. See my example
As I'm viewing so, if a bottom layer component is flipped, it will be on
the top layer.
So try to edit the project.cad file and delete the FLIP tags.
Or keep the flip tag and change BOTTOM to TOP.
I can't test it, but give it a try.

Hi Pedro,
that is what I am currently trying. I am waiting for the manufacturer to try that out.

But it's annoying to fix this every time I export a *.cad from KiCad.
Thus I am looking for a more permanent solution.

But fixing this in KiCad without being able to the the import into another tool could also make things worse.

Regars,
Chris

[Chris Fiege [e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Hi Everyone,
I am still looking into the issue with the GenCAD-Export described below.

I made some changes to the exported file and gave them to my manufacturer.
It seems like my changed fixed the problem with flipped pads on BOT-side parts.

Now I would like to bring this fix into KiCAD. But I neeed someone who can import GenCAD
to have more detailed tests on this issue.

Please let me know if you can import GenCAD and are willing to do some imports to improve
KiCAD.

Thank you,
Chris

Post by Chris Fiege ***@pengutronix.de [kicad-users]
Hi,
I am currently working with a manufacturer to fabricate a design. After soldering we want to add a flying-probe test to verify that all went well.
Working with other tools I had supplied the manufacturer with ODB++ -files. Since KiCad does not have an ODB++ -exporter (for reasons see [0]) we had a look on
other exports I can provide.
GenCAD looks like a good candidate: KiCad can export GenCAD and my manufacturer can import it into their magic flying-probe-tool.
Pads of components on the BOT-side appear on the TOP-side in the flying-probe-tool. The rest of the component is imported correctly and drawn on the BOT-side.
TOP-side only components are not affected.
I found a bug [1] that describes this issue on launchpad. But it does not look like anyone is working on this issue.
How do you export data for Flying-Probe?
Do you have a work-around for the GenCAD issue?
Or is maybe anyone able to import GenCAD? I am not and thus I am not able to work on the issue in KiCAD.
If you are interested in trying to fix this issue I could try to work on the exporter and rely on you in validating.
Cheers,
Chris
[0]: https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg20255.html
[1]: https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1461147

[David Novak [e-mail] [kicad-users]]

We've successfully used ProntoVIEW-Markup
(http://www.unisoft-cim.com/pcbview.htm) in the past to view GenCAD
files. They have a free trial download.

As you pointed out, there are issues with the GenCAD exporter. We made
changes to correct them, but have never had time to properly submit them
back to the code base. They are attached for reference. You are free to
use them as you wish. I'd love to see them incorporated into the next
Kicad release.

David

Post by Chris Fiege ***@pengutronix.de [kicad-users]
Hi Everyone,
I am still looking into the issue with the GenCAD-Export described below.
I made some changes to the exported file and gave them to my manufacturer.
It seems like my changed fixed the problem with flipped pads on BOT-side parts.
Now I would like to bring this fix into KiCAD. But I neeed someone who can import GenCAD
to have more detailed tests on this issue.
Please let me know if you can import GenCAD and are willing to do some imports to improve
KiCAD.
Thank you,
Chris

Post by Chris Fiege ***@pengutronix.de [kicad-users]
Hi,
I am currently working with a manufacturer to fabricate a design. After soldering we want to add a flying-probe test to verify that all went well.
Working with other tools I had supplied the manufacturer with ODB++ -files. Since KiCad does not have an ODB++ -exporter (for reasons see [0]) we had a look on
other exports I can provide.
GenCAD looks like a good candidate: KiCad can export GenCAD and my manufacturer can import it into their magic flying-probe-tool.
Pads of components on the BOT-side appear on the TOP-side in the flying-probe-tool. The rest of the component is imported correctly and drawn on the BOT-side.
TOP-side only components are not affected.
I found a bug [1] that describes this issue on launchpad. But it does not look like anyone is working on this issue.
How do you export data for Flying-Probe?
Do you have a work-around for the GenCAD issue?
Or is maybe anyone able to import GenCAD? I am not and thus I am not able to work on the issue in KiCAD.
If you are interested in trying to fix this issue I could try to work on the exporter and rely on you in validating.
Cheers,
Chris
[0]: https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg20255.html
[1]: https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1461147

[David Novak [e-mail] [kicad-users]]

We made the following improvements.

* Don't make new shape for every reference designator. Instead, create
shapes based on modules and assign to devices based on reference
designators.
* Don't allow pins without numbers to have duplicate pin numbers.
* Correctly implement MIRRORX.
* Correctly implement flip.

Here is the link to the discussion I had with the development team
regarding the changes.

http://www.mail-archive.com/kicad-***@lists.launchpad.net/msg14697.html

David

Post by David Novak ***@dajac.com [kicad-users]
We've successfully used ProntoVIEW-Markup
(http://www.unisoft-cim.com/pcbview.htm) in the past to view GenCAD
files. They have a free trial download.
As you pointed out, there are issues with the GenCAD exporter. We made
changes to correct them, but have never had time to properly submit
them back to the code base. They are attached for reference. You are
free to use them as you wish. I'd love to see them incorporated into
the next Kicad release.
David

Post by Chris Fiege ***@pengutronix.de [kicad-users]
Hi Everyone,
I am still looking into the issue with the GenCAD-Export described below.
I made some changes to the exported file and gave them to my manufacturer.
It seems like my changed fixed the problem with flipped pads on BOT-side parts.
Now I would like to bring this fix into KiCAD. But I neeed someone who can import GenCAD
to have more detailed tests on this issue.
Please let me know if you can import GenCAD and are willing to do some imports to improve
KiCAD.
Thank you,
Chris

Post by Chris Fiege ***@pengutronix.de [kicad-users]
Hi,
I am currently working with a manufacturer to fabricate a design. After soldering we want to add a flying-probe test to verify that all went well.
Working with other tools I had supplied the manufacturer with ODB++ -files. Since KiCad does not have an ODB++ -exporter (for reasons see [0]) we had a look on
other exports I can provide.
GenCAD looks like a good candidate: KiCad can export GenCAD and my manufacturer can import it into their magic flying-probe-tool.
Pads of components on the BOT-side appear on the TOP-side in the flying-probe-tool. The rest of the component is imported correctly and drawn on the BOT-side.
TOP-side only components are not affected.
I found a bug [1] that describes this issue on launchpad. But it does not look like anyone is working on this issue.
How do you export data for Flying-Probe?
Do you have a work-around for the GenCAD issue?
Or is maybe anyone able to import GenCAD? I am not and thus I am not able to work on the issue in KiCAD.
If you are interested in trying to fix this issue I could try to work on the exporter and rely on you in validating.
Cheers,
Chris
[0]:https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg20255.html
[1]:https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1461147