Discussion:
Mounting holes missing solder mask opening
prenato_2000
2012-07-21 18:12:57 UTC
Permalink
Hi

I'm new to pcb making and tried nding my first Kicad design to iteadstudios. They are reporting an issue with the mounting holes in my Gerbers:

"there are 4 drill size 3.0 mm that are missing solder mask opening ,see the picture .we kindly propose you could update the gerber file ."

I used the 1PIN module in the pcb design tool to add these holes. This is a two layer pcb and i placed this module in ecah of the four corners. Anyone has suggestion on what I might have done wrong and how to correct it?

Many thanks in advance,

Paulo



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robert
2012-07-22 12:42:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by prenato_2000
"there are 4 drill size 3.0 mm that are missing solder mask opening ,see the picture .we kindly propose you could update the gerber file ."
I used the 1PIN module in the pcb design tool to add these holes.
I haven't had problems with "1pin" before. Did you check the gerber files with a gerber viewer? (gerbv is quite good). Can you post them, or at least the 'picture'?



------------------------------------

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prenato_2000
2012-07-22 15:17:03 UTC
Permalink
Hi Robert,
Thanks a lot for your feedback. Here's an image. The layer in blue are
the drill holes where the four large ones in the four corners are the
1PIn screw holes. The green color is the solder mask in the bottom
layer. I have 5 SMD capacitors there and these are the mask opening for
those (I suppose). Given that the 1PIN are just screw holes, I'm
wondering why they would need a solder mask opening for these holes? I'm
probably missing something basic here since I'm new at this.
Thanks in advance,P
Post by robert
Post by prenato_2000
"there are 4 drill size 3.0 mm that are missing solder mask opening
,see the picture .we kindly propose you could update the gerber file ."
Post by robert
Post by prenato_2000
I used the 1PIN module in the pcb design tool to add these holes.
I haven't had problems with "1pin" before. Did you check the gerber
files with a gerber viewer? (gerbv is quite good). Can you post them, or
at least the 'picture'?
e_e_lucchesi
2012-07-23 00:39:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by prenato_2000
Hi Robert,
Thanks a lot for your feedback. Here's an image. The layer in blue are
the drill holes where the four large ones in the four corners are the
1PIn screw holes. The green color is the solder mask in the bottom
layer. I have 5 SMD capacitors there and these are the mask opening for
those (I suppose). Given that the 1PIN are just screw holes, I'm
wondering why they would need a solder mask opening for these holes? I'm
probably missing something basic here since I'm new at this.
Thanks in advance,P
Post by robert
Post by prenato_2000
"there are 4 drill size 3.0 mm that are missing solder mask opening
,see the picture .we kindly propose you could update the gerber file ."
Post by robert
Post by prenato_2000
I used the 1PIN module in the pcb design tool to add these holes.
I haven't had problems with "1pin" before. Did you check the gerber
files with a gerber viewer? (gerbv is quite good). Can you post them, or
at least the 'picture'?
Hello Renato,
By default, KiCad's through-hole pads don't have solder paste layers checked (I don't know why, and that's one of the reasons I never use modules from the standard libraries). Is it possible that this is a case of terminology, i.e., confusion between "solder paste mask" (the one through which solder paste goes) and "solder mask" (the one that stops solder)?
Best regards,
Esteban




------------------------------------

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e_e_lucchesi
2012-07-23 00:42:31 UTC
Permalink
I forgot to tell you that I can't see the image (when I click your message on Yahoo's page a dialog asking user name and password appears).
Post by prenato_2000
Hi Robert,
Thanks a lot for your feedback. Here's an image. The layer in blue are
the drill holes where the four large ones in the four corners are the
1PIn screw holes. The green color is the solder mask in the bottom
layer. I have 5 SMD capacitors there and these are the mask opening for
those (I suppose). Given that the 1PIN are just screw holes, I'm
wondering why they would need a solder mask opening for these holes? I'm
probably missing something basic here since I'm new at this.
Thanks in advance,P
Post by robert
Post by prenato_2000
"there are 4 drill size 3.0 mm that are missing solder mask opening
,see the picture .we kindly propose you could update the gerber file ."
Post by robert
Post by prenato_2000
I used the 1PIN module in the pcb design tool to add these holes.
I haven't had problems with "1pin" before. Did you check the gerber
files with a gerber viewer? (gerbv is quite good). Can you post them, or
at least the 'picture'?
------------------------------------

Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question.
Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad.
Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad library.
For building Kicad from source and other development questions visit the kicad-devel group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-develYahoo! Groups Links

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prenato_2000
2012-07-23 01:13:15 UTC
Permalink
Hi Esteban, Robert,
Sorry for the image issue. Here it is what I intended to post. Hopefully
will show now:
[layoutIssue]
Loading Image...
I placed it under Photos -> Kicad_problems
The layer in blue contains the drill holes where the four large ones in
the four corners are the 1PIn screw holes. The green color is the solder
mask in the bottom layer. I have 5 SMD capacitors there and these are
the mask opening for those (I suppose). Given that the 1PIN are just
screw holes, I'm wondering why they would need a solder mask opening for
these holes? I'm probably missing something basic here since I'm new at
this.
Post by e_e_lucchesi
I forgot to tell you that I can't see the image (when I click your
message on Yahoo's page a dialog asking user name and password appears).
Post by e_e_lucchesi
Post by prenato_2000
Hi Robert,
Thanks a lot for your feedback. Here's an image. The layer in blue are
the drill holes where the four large ones in the four corners are the
1PIn screw holes. The green color is the solder mask in the bottom
layer. I have 5 SMD capacitors there and these are the mask opening for
those (I suppose). Given that the 1PIN are just screw holes, I'm
wondering why they would need a solder mask opening for these holes? I'm
probably missing something basic here since I'm new at this.
Thanks in advance,P
Post by robert
Post by prenato_2000
"there are 4 drill size 3.0 mm that are missing solder mask opening
,see the picture .we kindly propose you could update the gerber file ."
Post by robert
Post by prenato_2000
I used the 1PIN module in the pcb design tool to add these holes.
I haven't had problems with "1pin" before. Did you check the gerber
files with a gerber viewer? (gerbv is quite good). Can you post them, or
at least the 'picture'?
prenato_2000
2012-07-23 02:01:24 UTC
Permalink
Here's the latest I heard from the pcb house:

"Since you have indicated that four holes are screw holes ,then the solder mask opening is necessity .because if no solder mask opening ,the hole wall will be covered with solder .so we kindly propose you could update the gerber file with 4 solder mask opening adding ."

I'm not sure what to do here. If anyone has a suggestion I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
P
Post by prenato_2000
Hi Esteban, Robert,
Sorry for the image issue. Here it is what I intended to post. Hopefully
[layoutIssue]
http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/16027698/sn/1220508062/name/layoutIssue.jpg
I placed it under Photos -> Kicad_problems
The layer in blue contains the drill holes where the four large ones in
the four corners are the 1PIn screw holes. The green color is the solder
mask in the bottom layer. I have 5 SMD capacitors there and these are
the mask opening for those (I suppose). Given that the 1PIN are just
screw holes, I'm wondering why they would need a solder mask opening for
these holes? I'm probably missing something basic here since I'm new at
this.
Post by e_e_lucchesi
I forgot to tell you that I can't see the image (when I click your
message on Yahoo's page a dialog asking user name and password appears).
Post by e_e_lucchesi
Post by prenato_2000
Hi Robert,
Thanks a lot for your feedback. Here's an image. The layer in blue
are
Post by e_e_lucchesi
Post by prenato_2000
the drill holes where the four large ones in the four corners are
the
Post by e_e_lucchesi
Post by prenato_2000
1PIn screw holes. The green color is the solder mask in the bottom
layer. I have 5 SMD capacitors there and these are the mask opening
for
Post by e_e_lucchesi
Post by prenato_2000
those (I suppose). Given that the 1PIN are just screw holes, I'm
wondering why they would need a solder mask opening for these holes?
I'm
Post by e_e_lucchesi
Post by prenato_2000
probably missing something basic here since I'm new at this.
Thanks in advance,P
Post by robert
Post by prenato_2000
"there are 4 drill size 3.0 mm that are missing solder mask
opening
Post by e_e_lucchesi
Post by prenato_2000
,see the picture .we kindly propose you could update the gerber file
."
Post by e_e_lucchesi
Post by prenato_2000
Post by robert
Post by prenato_2000
I used the 1PIN module in the pcb design tool to add these
holes.
Post by e_e_lucchesi
Post by prenato_2000
Post by robert
I haven't had problems with "1pin" before. Did you check the
gerber
Post by e_e_lucchesi
Post by prenato_2000
files with a gerber viewer? (gerbv is quite good). Can you post
them, or
Post by e_e_lucchesi
Post by prenato_2000
at least the 'picture'?
------------------------------------

Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question.
Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad.
Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad library.
For building Kicad from source and other development questions visit the kicad-devel group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-develYahoo! Groups Links

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robert
2012-07-23 12:23:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by prenato_2000
"Since you have indicated that four holes are screw holes ,then the
solder mask opening is necessity .because if no solder mask opening
,the hole wall will be covered with solder .so we kindly propose you
could update the gerber file with 4 solder mask opening adding ."
I'm not sure if some information might have been lost in translation.

The only issue I can think of is this: Usually the boards are drilled before solder mask is applied. So if there are no openings in the mask, the mounting holes would be blocked by the mask.

Also we don't know (yet) if you have openings of the solder mask on BOTH layers. If just one layer is open, the hole will indeed fill up with solder when they do HASL.

Maybe that is the problem.

So you should check if you have the proper openings for the drill hole on both mask layers (top and bottom).

When creating the gerber files, make sure to create top and bottom solder mask layers + check if they 'open the hole' all the way. Maybe there is something wrong with the 1pin footprint of your kicad release. Can't be sure, but some footprints have bugs.



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Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question.
Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad.
Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad library.
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Koenraad Lelong
2012-07-23 13:33:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by prenato_2000
"Since you have indicated that four holes are screw holes ,then the solder mask opening is necessity .because if no solder mask opening ,the hole wall will be covered with solder .so we kindly propose you could update the gerber file with 4 solder mask opening adding ."
I'm not sure what to do here. If anyone has a suggestion I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
P
In the latest official build of Kicad, you have an option to indicate
the hole as NPTH : Non-Plated-Though-Hole. Then there are two drill
files made, one containing the PTH and one containing the NPTH drills.
NPTH's are normally drilled after the PCB is etched/plated, so there
can't be any solder in the holes.

HTH,

Koenraad Lelong.


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Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question.
Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad.
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prenato_2000
2012-07-23 18:36:41 UTC
Permalink
Hi Robert, Esteban, Koenraad,

Thanks a lot for all your insights. Your comments led me to what I was doing wrong. Here it is so others don't run into same problem:

As mentioned by Esteban, it was a confusion of solder paste versus solder mask. Itead asks for:

Solder Stop Mask top: pcbname.GTS
Solder Stop Mask Bottom pcbname.GBS

I misinterpreted this as being the SoldP_Front and SoldP_Back in Kicad "plot" layers menu. In reality, I now believe I should have check the Mask_Front and Mask_Back instead as Robert mentioned these are the actual solder "masks".
Typical beginner mistake.I really appreciate the help you all gave me which led me to the issue. This is a really great community!

Thanks,

Paulo
Post by Koenraad Lelong
Post by prenato_2000
"Since you have indicated that four holes are screw holes ,then the solder mask opening is necessity .because if no solder mask opening ,the hole wall will be covered with solder .so we kindly propose you could update the gerber file with 4 solder mask opening adding ."
I'm not sure what to do here. If anyone has a suggestion I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
P
In the latest official build of Kicad, you have an option to indicate
the hole as NPTH : Non-Plated-Though-Hole. Then there are two drill
files made, one containing the PTH and one containing the NPTH drills.
NPTH's are normally drilled after the PCB is etched/plated, so there
can't be any solder in the holes.
HTH,
Koenraad Lelong.
------------------------------------

Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question.
Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad.
Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad library.
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