[kicad-users] A Keypad for KiCAD?

[[e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Hello all,
. . . . Is there a 16 key Keypad for KiCAD and where would I find it?
GOD Bless,
rich!

[Peter Bennett [e-mail] [kicad-users]]

It would probably be faster to make the schematic symbol and footprint
yourself. AND you would know that the footprint matched YOUR keypad.

On 2017-04-26 7:57 PM, ***@charter.net [kicad-users] wrote:
>
>
> Hello all,
> . . . . Is there a 16 key Keypad for KiCAD and where would I find it?
> GOD Bless,
> rich!
>
>
>
>
>

--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vpsboat.org

[[e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Peter,
. . . . I have figured out how to design a part but I haven't been able to figure out how to build a footprint. Can you please help me out?
GOD Bless,
rich!

[Rob Ready [e-mail] [kicad-users]]

blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px #715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important; background-color:white !important; } Are you referring to s 16 key keypad component? Like you want to build a device with a keypad? 




Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone




On Wednesday, April 26, 2017, 7:57 PM, ***@charter.net [kicad-users] <kicad-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Hello all,
 . . . . Is there a 16 key Keypad for KiCAD and where would I find it?
GOD Bless,

rich!








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[[e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Rob,
. . . . Yes! I have designed a 16 Key Keypad in the Library Editor. I have designed gates, switches, jumpers and lots of other components. Most of the time I start with an existing component and then modify it. I am not sure about the footprints for these components. I appreciate the help. Thanks!
GOD Bless,
rich!

[Andy Eskelson [e-mail] [kicad-users]]

The footprint is a physical representation of the component.

You first need to sort out what you are going to use for the keys, then
you take the datasheet information and after carefully verifying that
the datasheet and the actual physical part agree, you draw it up in the
module editor.

You place pads as needed in the positions given by the datasheet.

Look at other devices in the module editor and see how they are made.
It's a VERY simplistic operation, the module editor on nowhere near as
complex as a full CAD drafting program.

What I often do is place pads at key points as guides, then "join the
dots" to create the outlines etc. then delete the guide pads

For something like a keypad, you need to decide if you are going to make
it as 16 individual switches, each placed individually, or one block of
4x4 switches. Not much to choose between the two options, as you still
need to draw one switch anyway. If you want a 4x4 matrix of switches,
you can copy the first and re-position as needed to build up a 4x4 module

The first thing to do is just have a play with the module editor, take a
14 pin DIL and modify it to say a 22 pin dill just to get the hang of it.

Seriously, most modules are no more than ten minutes work to draw up.
It's the sorting out of the dimensions from sometimes rather dodgy
datasheets that cause the most grief.

Andy




On 28 Apr 2017 00:13:18 +0000
"***@charter.net [kicad-users]" <kicad-***@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:

> Rob,
> . . . . Yes! I have designed a 16 Key Keypad in the Library Editor. I have designed gates, switches, jumpers and lots of other components. Most of the time I start with an existing component and then modify it. I am not sure about the footprints for these components. I appreciate the help. Thanks!
> GOD Bless,
> rich!

[[e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Andy,
. . . . I successfully created a Keypad in the Library Editor from Eeschema. I don't know if I have a Footprint or not but I am going to save that problem for a little later. Right now I have another problem that I need to solve before I can go forward. When I run ERC I have 3 warnings left that I can't figure out. Brian was helping me but he is too sick right now. I am holding him and his family in my prayers.
. . . . At one point I had a couple of hundred Warnings. With Brian's help we fixed it. I decided to do a little rearrangement and I again had about 200 or so Warnings and 6 or 7 Errors. I have been able to get this number down to 3 Warnings. I just can't figure these three out. I have included an Archive of the project with the ERC Report. Please help? I am so close and so far away.
GOD Bless,
rich!

[[e-mail] [kicad-users]]

I just loaded your schematic; after annotating it (there were two power symbols that needed it), DRC is only showing three warnings about nets that are not driven. They are about missing power flags on +8V, +16V and -16V. I would add them (just stick them in a corner) to eliminate the warnings,


Power flags are notes to the DRC system to tell it that a net has a power source that is not on the board or not obvious (ie, power comes through a switch, connector, or jumper).
/mike

[[e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Mike, Andy,
. . . .I just lost my reply that I was writing. :( I just finished reading the Wiki on using PWR_FLAGS. It was only some what helpful. I have had a lot of problems with PWR_FLAGS. When I add a PWR_FLAG to the +8V line one of the warnings goes away. If I add PWR_FLAGS to the the other lines and the GND line I receive a lot of Errors and Warnings. I have looked John's Schematics over but I haven't been able to figure out the Logic behind his use of PWR_FLAGS.
. . . . This circuit is designed to run in a stand alone configuration or to be plugged into a S-100 system. The S-100 System only provides Power to run the Programmer. When SW3 is in Position One the Power comes from the on board Transformers and the Bridge Rectifiers. The S-100 System is completely isolated. In Position Two the Power comes from the S-100 System and the Transformers and Bridges Rectifiers are Isolated.
. . . . I believe that I drew the Circuit correctly. I drew it on paper first and carefully traced the circuity to insure that it worked the way that I wanted it to. If I do make a mistake please be sure to point it out to me. You will not offend me. I am not one of these Narcissistic people who believes that he can do no wrong. I know of only one person on Earth that was able to walk on liquid water and I am pretty sure that he is not here. Please feel free to experiment with the design and let me know about any changes or suggestions.
. . . . The attachment has the latest version and the ERC report is .erc.txt. I really Appreciate all of the help!
GOD Bless,
rich!

[Andy Eskelson [e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Hi Rich,

The logic with power flags is very simple.

They do NOTHING to the circuit, they are purely there for ERC usage.

You can have pins on a component tagged as POWER_IN or POWER_OUT as well
as a bevy of other options. In this case we are only talking about power
functions.

The ERC system then runs a check, one of which is :

"Are all the POWER_IN pins on the components connected to a "live" power
line?"

Now in a design you may NOT have any active power supply, the circuit
might be powered from a wall wart or even an external battery. So in
that case how do you tell ERC that a particular pine or connector
connected to a net has power?

That's what you use the power flag for.

Now the gotcha's

You can ONLY have ONE power flag on a net.
If you have more than one then you get warnings.

If there happens to be a device that has a pin configured as a POWER_OUT
then that performs the same function as a power flag. Adding a power
flag to that net will also generate an error because it's like having
two power flags.

Personally I don't use POWER_OUT pins on any component
because of this. I prefer to place power flags, then I can see what is
going on.

Your -16 V pin on P3 (pin 52) is set as a POWER_INPUT hence needs a power
flag on it

Likewise your +16 V line on pin 13 of SW3-4 seems to go nowhere and has
no power flag.

Ok on the dual supply point, that makes more sense now.

Andy








On 09 May 2017 11:41:55 +0000
"***@charter.net [kicad-users]" <kicad-***@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:

> Mike, Andy,
> . . . .I just lost my reply that I was writing. :( I just finished reading the Wiki on using PWR_FLAGS. It was only some what helpful. I have had a lot of problems with PWR_FLAGS. When I add a PWR_FLAG to the +8V line one of the warnings goes away. If I add PWR_FLAGS to the the other lines and the GND line I receive a lot of Errors and Warnings. I have looked John's Schematics over but I haven't been able to figure out the Logic behind his use of PWR_FLAGS.
> . . . . This circuit is designed to run in a stand alone configuration or to be plugged into a S-100 system. The S-100 System only provides Power to run the Programmer. When SW3 is in Position One the Power comes from the on board Transformers and the Bridge Rectifiers. The S-100 System is completely isolated. In Position Two the Power comes from the S-100 System and the Transformers and Bridges Rectifiers are Isolated.
> . . . . I believe that I drew the Circuit correctly. I drew it on paper first and carefully traced the circuity to insure that it worked the way that I wanted it to. If I do make a mistake please be sure to point it out to me. You will not offend me. I am not one of these Narcissistic people who believes that he can do no wrong. I know of only one person on Earth that was able to walk on liquid water and I am pretty sure that he is not here. Please feel free to experiment with the design and let me know about any changes or suggestions.
> . . . . The attachment has the latest version and the ERC report is .erc.txt. I really Appreciate all of the help!
> GOD Bless,
> rich!

[[e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Andy,
. . . . I still don't fully understand but when I placed PWR_FLAGS on those two pins the warnings went away. Now, I can move on to CVPnew and then PCBnew when I have sorted out the foot prints. I'm sure that I will be back for more help! Thanks, all!
GOD Bless,
rich!

[Andy Eskelson [e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Say you have a PCB that has a coin cell battery in a holder on it,
a real time clock design for example.

A battery holder is just a lump of plastic and metal, it does not
generate any power.

So when the ERC runs is checks to see if any device that needs power is
connected to an ACTIVE power line. How does ERC KNOW that a particular
line is actually providing power. The short answer is that it does not
know unless you tell it.

So you tell it by either:

Making a pin on a device a POWER_OUT type, usually the output terminal of
a regulator.

OR

Adding a power flag to the net. This simply tells ERC "YES! I'm
providing you with some volts!"

That's all it is.

The problems you can run into is that you must only have ONE POWER_OUT
on a net so is you set a pin to be power out, and also add a power flag
then you get errors. As you cannot see directly if a device has it's pin
set that way, I personally ensure that no device is set to use power
out, and I use power flags only. The choice is yours.

Andy


On 10 May 2017 03:01:57 +0000
"***@charter.net [kicad-users]" <kicad-***@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:

> Andy,
> . . . . I still don't fully understand but when I placed PWR_FLAGS on those two pins the warnings went away. Now, I can move on to CVPnew and then PCBnew when I have sorted out the foot prints. I'm sure that I will be back for more help! Thanks, all!
> GOD Bless,
> rich!

[[e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Hello all,
. . . . Surprise, surprise, I'm back! I made it through CvPcb but I did run into not having a Footprint for the Keypad. When I run PCBnew and load the Netlist from Eeschema I receive a whole bunch of errors about not finding Footprints. All of the Footprints except for the Keypad are applied to CvPcb. I am again lost and I need guidance. I appreciate any and all help. I have uploaded the completed project and the PCBnew Error File.
GOD Bless,
rich!

[Andy Eskelson [e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Kicad stores the footprint info in the netlist.

If you look at the netlist with a text editor and search of something that
has no footprint, you will see that there is no footprint field:

Compare R6 and R14 from your netlist:

(comp (ref R6)
(value 150)
(footprint JAIR:R3)
(libsource (lib device) (part R))
(sheetpath (names /) (tstamps /))
(tstamp 590337D2))

(comp (ref R14)
(value "100 2W")
(libsource (lib device) (part R))
(sheetpath (names /) (tstamps /))
(tstamp 59033AB2))


It very much looks like you have simply not selected any footprint for
that component.

Andy




On 10 May 2017 07:06:48 +0000
"***@charter.net [kicad-users]" <kicad-***@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:

> Hello all,
> . . . . Surprise, surprise, I'm back! I made it through CvPcb but I did run into not having a Footprint for the Keypad. When I run PCBnew and load the Netlist from Eeschema I receive a whole bunch of errors about not finding Footprints. All of the Footprints except for the Keypad are applied to CvPcb. I am again lost and I need guidance. I appreciate any and all help. I have uploaded the completed project and the PCBnew Error File.
> GOD Bless,
> rich!

[[e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Andy,
. . . . This is really weird. If I use Footprints from the JAIR Library that I put together for the DIP Sockets than I don't receive any Errors when I bring up PCBnew and my board. If I use the DIP Footprints that are included in the Libraries that were installed by KiCAD I receive those Errors. Go Figure! I don't understand this. Any thoughts?
. . . I wasn't thinking correctly when it came to the Keypad Footprint. There are only 8 or 10 pins depending on whether the Keypad is illuminated or not. I just needed a straight 1x8 or 1x10 connector.
GOD Bless,
rich!

[[e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Andy,
. . . . I don't receive any Error Messages when I first start PCBnew but when I do a Read Netlist from PCBnew I receive a lot of messages. The footprints are in my CvPcb file but they aren't showing up in PCBnew. Am I going to have to go into the Netlist and manually add these Footprints?
GOD Bless,
rich!

[[e-mail] [kicad-users]]

hi rich,

have you saved your symbol-footprints association? (there is a save button in the top left of the CvPcb window)
and after this exported your netlist?
the association information are stored in the .sch file. you can also have a look at on of your symbols in Eeschema: right click on symbol and choose 'edit' - there you will find a field 'Footprint' with your choosen value. - you can also change it at this point if you like...

hopefully this helps ;-)

sunny greetings stefan

[[e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Stefan,
. . . . I got. I still don't fully understand everything but I was able to figure it out and there are no Errors. Thanks!
GOD Bless,
rich!

[[e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Hello all,
. . . . I have completed the Schematic and the PCB Board layout. If the Schematic is correct then the PCB is correct. I decided to remove everything needed to put it in a S-100 System. I also put Connectors in place of the DB-25, LEDs, Keypad, Switches, Potentiometer, Transformers, DSPs, Speaker, AC in, and I added a Connector for a DB-9 Port. I also reworked the board.
. . . . The original drawings that Dave did were done with a Bare Bones CAD Program. It will not run on a Win 8 or higher machine. I don't know if it will run under Win 7 or not. It does run under XP and earlier Versions. I am not sure the Schematic is correct. I have uploaded the latest version and the MicroCAD program with the Drawings. Could someone please take the time and go over my Schematic and compare it to Dave's Schematics? I need a sounding board. I would really appreciate it.
GOD Bless,
rich

[[e-mail] [kicad-users]]

A few notes:
Schematic:
P1: Pins 7,9,11,13 are shorted to ground

7805, 7812 no hi frequency decoupling caps - it may oscillate. See datasheet for recommendations. As I recall, 330nF on input, 100nF on output, right next to the part.

R6, R16 may be low depending on the LEDs.

No bulk cap on -8V

I prefer to have the fuse first and then the switch on the AC input

Why is VR3's ground terminal going to a switch? The whole SW2/P14/VR3 circuit looks a bit fishy to me

Stylistic: Vss flag by C17 should be flipped - the green net runs right through the symbol

Do you need caps around X1? I haven't looked at a 6809 datasheet in years...


PCB:
Spacing - the 120V trace spacing is way too close. Likewise the pins/pads on the transformer connector. This is a MAJOR issue

Trace widths - I would grow the AC input traces, Vcc, and ground. Any chance of using a ground pour?



Bypass caps: The ground side of the bypass cap really needs to go directly to the ground of the same chip as the Vcc

Front horizontal back vertical is a guideline, not a rule. There are many places where you go front-via-back-via-front just to drop the trace down a bit without anything crossing it. Keep those on one side and you can get rid of many vias

You have resistors under the relays.


/mike

[Andy Eskelson [e-mail] [kicad-users]]

As well as the caps, reverse voltage protection diodes are also the norm
on the regulators 1N4001 between input and output reverse biased.

andy


On 15 May 2017 13:25:02 +0000
"***@comcast.net [kicad-users]" <kicad-***@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> A few notes:
> Schematic:
> P1: Pins 7,9,11,13 are shorted to ground
>
> 7805, 7812 no hi frequency decoupling caps - it may oscillate. See datasheet for recommendations. As I recall, 330nF on input, 100nF on output, right next to the part.
>
> R6, R16 may be low depending on the LEDs.
>
> No bulk cap on -8V
>
> I prefer to have the fuse first and then the switch on the AC input
>
> Why is VR3's ground terminal going to a switch? The whole SW2/P14/VR3 circuit looks a bit fishy to me
>
> Stylistic: Vss flag by C17 should be flipped - the green net runs right through the symbol
>
> Do you need caps around X1? I haven't looked at a 6809 datasheet in years...
>
>
> PCB:
> Spacing - the 120V trace spacing is way too close. Likewise the pins/pads on the transformer connector. This is a MAJOR issue
>
> Trace widths - I would grow the AC input traces, Vcc, and ground. Any chance of using a ground pour?
>
>
>
> Bypass caps: The ground side of the bypass cap really needs to go directly to the ground of the same chip as the Vcc
>
> Front horizontal back vertical is a guideline, not a rule. There are many places where you go front-via-back-via-front just to drop the trace down a bit without anything crossing it. Keep those on one side and you can get rid of many vias
>
> You have resistors under the relays.
>
>
> /mike
>
>

[[e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Andy,
. . . . I have never seen Reverse Polarity Diodes on the Voltage Regulators. I see where they could save the device from damage if reverse voltage were applied but I don't see that as a problem because the Transformers would use keyed connectors. What do you think?
GOD Bless,
rich!

[Andy Eskelson [e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Rich,

it's nothing to do with connectors, and most datasheets will or should
show the diode.

Many regulators do not like the output pin rising above the input pin
voltage. The simple cure is to put a reverse biased diode between
the input and output.

So you have

diode
in--- ---out
| |
cap cap
| |
-----------
gnd


The situation of the output rising above the input can occur if the on
switch off the main power decays quickly perhaps it is providing input
to several power regulators, and the output of the regulators is held up
by smoothing caps.


The addition of the anti oscillation and the reverse diode have been
pretty much standard practise sinxce the introduction of three terminal
regulators.

Andy


On 16 May 2017 00:35:27 +0000
"***@charter.net [kicad-users]" <kicad-***@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:

> Andy,
> . . . . I have never seen Reverse Polarity Diodes on the Voltage Regulators. I see where they could save the device from damage if reverse voltage were applied but I don't see that as a problem because the Transformers would use keyed connectors. What do you think?
> GOD Bless,
> rich!

[[e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Mike,
. . . . I went through your list.

1. P1 grounded pins, I went and checked the information on the RS-232 DB-25 pins and removed the Junctions. I see what you mean about the Grounds.

2. No High Frequency decoupling Capacitors. I was thinking of doing that. The original Schematic by Dave didn't have any on it. I have always put them in my own designs.

3. Led resistors. I increased them to 330.

4. No sag Capacitor on the -8V line. I added it.

5. I have always but the Switch first. If the Fuse blows you can turn the Switch off and the Fuse is isolated. I did try switching them around and I received an ERC error. It was about the Fuse not being driven. I Switched them back. I think that this is a personal choice. I would like to hear your opinion on this?

6. The Switch is there so that you can have a Ground which insures that the EPROM can't accidentally be Programmed until you are ready. So that you can use a fixed voltage or an adjustable voltage for Programming. At least that is what it looks like to me.

7. I didn't find a VSS flag near C17. I suspect that your version is a little earlier than what I am working on.

8. I was also wondering if I needed capacitors on the Crystal. Yes, they are needed and I have added them. I had planned on looking it up in the near future.

9. I agree about the AC trace spacing. I am wondering what a good spacing would be. 0.2, 0.3 ,0.4 inches? Would one of these also apply to the Pin Spacing?

10. I am using the same Trace sizes that John is using but that doesn't mean that they couldn't be wider. Recommendations? I don't know how to use a Ground Pour and the boards I have seen with Ground Pours are impossible to follow. How big a difference will it make?

11. A Component was connected to the Bus instead of to the Capacitor. I fixed it.

12. I like using that pattern because it insures that I don't run out of space to place the traces. I can go and clean those up after I get everything connected. I didn't even know that it was a recommended procedure.

13. The resistors under the relays are there because it is a conenvient spot to put them and I plan on using a socket for the Relays. I guess I could move them so that the relays can be directly mounted on the board.

. . . . I really appreciate all of the advice and please continue. Thanks!
GOD Bless,
rich!

[[e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Mike, Andy,
. . . . Here is the latest Version. Mike it includes your suggestions as documented in my last reply. What do you think of Andy's suggestion about Reverse Diodes on the Voltage Regulators?
GOD Bless,
rich!

[[e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Hello all,
. . . . I went in and edited the Netlist manually. I have reduced my errors to just Four items. I can't figure out these last four problems. I have uploaded the latest version. Any ideas or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
GOD Bless,
rich!

[[e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Hello all,
. . . . By editing the Netlist manually, using CvPcb, deleting the Netlist, Shutting down the program, and then restarting everything I was able to correct all of the errors. I really appreciate all of the help. I sure have learned a lot. Thanks,:)! of Course my cats have put in their two cents!
GOD Bless,
rich!

[Andy Eskelson [e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Hi Rich,

As Mike says the error is just missing power flags.

The ERC does a fairly good job of telling you what the problem is and
where. If you click onthe link it will position the cursor on the error.


ErrType(3): Pin connected to some others pins but no pin to drive it
@ (42.400 in,5.750 in): Pin 52 (Power input) of component P3 is not
driven (Net 73).


The no pin to drive it type error is one of the common errors that
newcomers trip[ up on.

The ERC works on a series of rules that it checks the circuit against.
One of these it to check that any pin on a device that is designated as
a POWER_IN function, actually has as active source of power to drive it.

In many cases the source of the power is from off-board power
supply

In this case it does not look as if you have any source for your +8, +16
and -16 volt supply.

To correct this just add a power flag on the appropriate net


On a slightly different issue, do check your power supply connections

SW3 pole 1 seems to be switching the raw dc from BR1 positive to the
input of VR1 7805, and the same input is taken to the net above VR1 and
to a +8V power port obviously not correct

Likewise the -8 volt supply seems to connect via SW3 pole 2 incorrectly.

I am assuming that pins 1,2,3,4,5 are the common connection. If so check
this part of the design carefully, as it may be incorrect.

Andy






On 08 May 2017 06:34:19 +0000
"***@charter.net [kicad-users]" <kicad-***@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:

> Andy,
> . . . . I successfully created a Keypad in the Library Editor from Eeschema. I don't know if I have a Footprint or not but I am going to save that problem for a little later. Right now I have another problem that I need to solve before I can go forward. When I run ERC I have 3 warnings left that I can't figure out. Brian was helping me but he is too sick right now. I am holding him and his family in my prayers.
> . . . . At one point I had a couple of hundred Warnings. With Brian's help we fixed it. I decided to do a little rearrangement and I again had about 200 or so Warnings and 6 or 7 Errors. I have been able to get this number down to 3 Warnings. I just can't figure these three out. I have included an Archive of the project with the ERC Report. Please help? I am so close and so far away.
> GOD Bless,
> rich!

['TK Boyd' [e-mail] [kicad-users]]

Notes on how to use power flags at...
http://kicadhowto.wikidot.com/sk1pwrprt1

> As Mike says the error is just missing power flags.
>
> The ERC does a fairly good job of telling you what the problem is and
> where. If you click onthe link it will position the cursor on the error.
>
>
> ErrType(3): Pin connected to some others pins but no pin to drive it
> @ (42.400 in,5.750 in): Pin 52 (Power input) of component P3 is not
> driven (Net 73).
>
>
> The no pin to drive it type error is one of the common errors that
> newcomers trip[ up on.
>
>
> > Andy,
> > . . . . I successfully created a Keypad in the Library Editor from Eeschema. I don't know if I have a Footprint or not but I am going to save that problem for a little later. Right now I have another problem that I need to solve before I can go forward. When I run ERC I have 3 warnings left that I can't figure out. Brian was helping me but he is too sick right now. I am holding him and his family in my prayers.
> > . . . . At one point I had a couple of hundred Warnings. With Brian's help we fixed it. I decided to do a little rearrangement and I again had about 200 or so Warnings and 6 or 7 Errors. I have been able to get this number down to 3 Warnings. I just can't figure these three out. I have included an Archive of the project with the ERC Report. Please help? I am so close and so far away.